THOSE DISNEY DOGS AND THE RCMP

It has been almost four decades since the Royal Canadian Mounted Police abandoned the use of sled dogs in their work throughout Canada’s North. With their usual flair for public relations, the mounties arranged for their sled dogs to go out in eye-catching style. The much-publicized Last Patrol undertaken by Constable Warren Wray Townsend and Special Constable Peter Benjamin, left Old Crow Yukon on March 11, 1969, bound for Fort McPherson and Arctic Red River N.W.T. before returning to Old Crow. The official force photographs show these two men on the patrol, identically dressed in traditional northern parkas and mukluks, their new blue toboggans featuring the Mounted Police logo are impressive against the white snow. It’s obvious that the dogs all have on new harness, no-doubt made especially for this event. The most striking parts of the whole picture however are the two teams of impressive looking sled dogs (1).

Rare is the northern dog musher who has not debated over the origins of these particular sled dogs. Myths have been perpetuated, much mis-information has been spread. One of the most widespread assumptions is that these dogs are purebred Siberian Huskies. Behind the myths and assumptions is a fascinating story...the story of how these beautiful-looking sled dogs found a home in the kennels of the R.C.M.P. throughout Canada’s north, more specifically the western and central arctic (2).
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The area of Banff Alberta was the site for much of the filming of the movie “Nomads of the North”. For three years, from March 1958 to March 1961, the Cangary Film Company, a Walt Disney subsidiary worked on the production of this sled dog adventure more. The star was a sled dog known as Miki. Walt Disney had taken a real personal interest in the making of this move, but when all the footage was in the can, Mr. Disney decreed that there should be only one Miki, (his favourite little mouse), so the name of the hero was changed to Nikki, and subsequently the title of the movie became “Nikki—Wild Dog of the North”.

Bill Bacon was one of the photographers working on this movie. A resident of Alaska, Mr. Bacon and his wife Virginia also had the task of securing the dogs for use in filming the movie. As friends of Bill and Virginia’s, Walt Disney had taken a liking to their pet husky Smokey. “That is the dog I want as the hero” Walt Disney reportedly said, so Bill Bacon went all through Alaska and Canada, looking for dogs that resembled his Smokey. The story line of the movie traces the life of the hero dog from puyppyhood to adulthood. It became necessary to institute a breeding program so that dogs representing Nikki at all ages and in all temperaments were available. A mean dog, happy dog, sick dog, frightened dog etc. were all needed.

Smokey himself was a greyish-white husky with a full mask, who could be said to resemble a Malemute/Siberian Husky cross. He had been obtained by the Bacons in Whitehorse Yukon. Smokey himself appeared in only one sequence of the movie, and in all fourteen dogs were used to portray Nikki. No attempt was made to have all the dogs of a single breed, the only criteria was that they look like Smokey. Playing the role of Nikki were females named Miss Miki, Miss Miki Too, Klondy, Knik, Jill and Kafik. Males that played the role included two dogs purchased in Churchill Manitoba, Lobo, Smokey, Big Mean Smokey , and finally the dog that was used most of the time in the hero’s role, Nikki himself. It might be useful to look at the breeding of Nikki as it is well documented. This will serve to illustrate some of the bloodlines that were in the dogs that ultimately ended with the R.C.M.P.

Nikki was bred by Joe and Vi Redington of Knik Alaska.(3). He was originally named Polar and was born February 4, 1958. At six months of age he was sold to Bill Bacon. His sire was Tok, a Malamute show dog and a fair working animal. His dam was Chena, also a Malamute, of Earl and Natalie Norris stock.(4). Nikki (Polar) had no Siberian Husky blood in him. The Redingtons later sold six other dogs to Bacon, three males and three females. Three were Chena’s pups, but three were sired by Tok of a ½ Siberian Husky ½ Eskimo Dog named Belle. Belle’s sire was from Greenland and was brought to Alaska by the U.S. Air Force 10th Rescue Unit of Elmendorf Air Force Base. In all it should be noted that over 200 different sled dogs were used in the movie “Nikki –Wild Dog of the North”, which was released in 1961 (5).

When the filming was completed, Bill Bacon had the difficult job of finding homes for the scores of dogs that had been used in this movie. Dozens of them, mostly young dogs, were given away to local Banff/Calgary people. An entire team was donated to the park where the movie was filmed, for service in the National Park system; others were given to park employees. Bill Bacon had a friend named Gordon Whitehouse who was a member of the R.C.M.P. Working through Gordon, Bill asked the R.C.M.P. if the force would be interested in taking some of his breeding stock. As fate would have it, several changing circumstances involving the use of sled dogs by the R.C.M.P. in Canada’s N.W.T. and Yukon made Bill Bacon’s offer both very timely and very propitious..
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.The first recorded dog team patrol by the then Northwest Mounted Police took place in 1873. It was at this time that a “dog train” journeyed from Lower Fort Garry to the west shore of Lake Winnipeg and succe3eded in apprehending six men who were “trading whiskey among the Indians”. During the 1890’s the force was known to have hired dog teams, but they also began purchasing their own sled dogs in various locations. If we look at the Yukon, the scene of much activity during the 18900’s and early 1900’s, the time of the Klondike Gold Rush, sled dogs were used extensively by the force. Originally all of the dogs used were “outside” dogs, being purchased in Labrador and the N.W.T. In1898 there were 142 sled dogs belonging to the force in the Yukon, in 1899 this ros e to 231 dogs. During this winter the force travelled 64,012 miles carrying over 6 ½ tons of mail by dog team. In 1900 Inspector C. Starnes writes:

“The class of dog we require is the ‘malamute’ or the ‘husky’. They are hardier, most used to the climate and can be depended upon. I would suggest the establishment of a stud [farm] on dog island and the purchasing of several good native dogs and bitches in order that we might breed our own dogs”.

Remember, this was the era of Soapy Smith and his hucksters, who reportedly were sweeping the streets of Seattle clean of any stray mutts, and shipping them to the Yukon for sale as “sled dogs”. As the Klondike Gold Rush waned, so did the use of sled dogs by the force. From a high of 231 dogs in 1899, 1903 saw the force with 88 dogs. The first Dawson City to Fort McPherson patrol took place in 1904, and sled dogs remained in use in the Yukon until 1969.

Typically the force would use dogs that were indigenous to the region where the post was located. In the high arctic for example, the Eskimo Dog, an incredibly powerful, sturdy animal capable of handling all that the climate of the far north could dish out, was used in routine patrols. Similarly, in the Mackenzie Valley region, the Mackenzie Husky was the dog of choice. The practice was for a Special Constable to be employed as dog handler. These Special Constables were local native men who would train the members in the use of sled dogs, and would act as guides on the various patrols (6). With the government footing the bill, the force’s sled dogs were always relatively well fed and cared for and were a source of great pride. There was no established breeding program, each detachment independently followed the breeding program that seemed to best suit its needs. All of this was to change.

In November of 1960, Superintendent W.G. Fraser, Officer Commanding of “G” Division, that division of the R.C.M.P. responsible for the force’s actions in the vast Canadian north, wrote a memorandum to the Commissioner of the force under the rather officious heading—“Police Sleigh Dogs—Breeding and Training--General”. Superintendent Fraser notes that:

“The provisioning of the force with capable and sturdy sleigh dogs has been a constant source of worry over the years”.

He then goes on to state that he has decided to:

“institute a breeding program and attempt to restock all our detachments with a different breed of dog than that presently in the arctic, and of course breed from pure-bred, or as near pure-bred stock as possible”.

Superintendent Fraser makes reference to the fact that there has always been a high mortality rate among the dogs in the Arctic and states that the trouble was that “the breeding was running out” whatever that means. As if this wasn’t enough to institute a breeding program, during the previous year an epidemic had wiped out 90-% of the dogs on the southern portion of Baffin Island. At Frobisher Bay (present day Iqaluit) alone, approximately 200 dogs died within one month and a half. The dogs belonging to the force at Lake Harbour became so emaciated and run down that six that did not die were humanely destroyed. Apparently several dogs also died in the Western Arctic at the Aklavik detachment due to “bad fish”. In any event, the R.C.M.P. dog breeding program was born, and the detachment at Fort Norman became the breeding station. To facilitate this program:

“Literature on the breeding and training of dogs was procured and sent to Fort Norman and instructions issued to enter upon a breeding programme that would eventually, possibly within five years, supply each detachment in our North with well-bred, efficient, sturdy sled dogs”.

To further ensure the success of this endeavour, Superintendent Fraser:

“transferred to Fort Norman a junior corporal who had previous experience in dog breeding and was in fact, before he joined the Force, associated with breeding of pure-bred cattle”.

Now in many ways Superintendent Fraser could be called in dog mushing lingo “a real dog man”. At a time when various forms of motorized transportation were steadily gaining ground in the North, this man was expounding the cause of the sled dog, and was actively campaigning to enhance the position of the sled dog in the force. Unfortunately however, he was operating under the handicaps of his personal biases, and a few basic misconceptions about the breeding of sled dogs.

The misconceptions involved his statement that “the breeding was running out”. It is not clear just what this means, but it probably refers to the fact that some sled dogs, bred in relative isolation, within the limits of the existing kennel were becoming in-bred, and the negative traits present in the gene pool were becoming re-enforced. If this was the case, it could be easily corrected by breeding an outcross or two, with a view to building on positive traits. Superintendent Fraser’s comment seems to infer that there just weren’t any good sled dogs left in the North, and this simply isn’t true. It may be partially true of the Yukon, where the influx of poor-quality dogs during the Klondike Gold Rush severely deteriorated the quality of sled dogs in that Territory. The dogs in the N.W.T. however, were ideally suited for the various tasks they were called upon to do, and were, in fact, the result of generation of selective breeding. “Only the fit survive” is a northern adage made popular by Robert Service, and it is nowhere more true than when applied to sled dogs. This means that only the best dogs, who could meet the demands of their master and of the climate lived to reproduce.

To his credit, Superintendent Fraser points out that a proper breeding program was being embarked upon by the force. Steps were clearly taken to improve the breeding techniques to overcome some of the problems referred to above. Rather than utilizing the dogs presently available using better breeding methods, it was felt necessary to introduce a new type of dog, and this, as time was to show, was not necessarily a beneficial step. It might have been more realistic for the force to look at the care being given to their dogs in an effort to improve their quality. While it is true that in the past number of years a great amount of knowledge has been gained concerning the care of dogs working under stress, and certainly this wealth of knowledge was not available to the force at the time, possibly greater care in vermifuging, vaccinating, feeding and watering of the dogs might have enhanced their quality.

When I talk about Superintendent Fraser’s bias, I am referring to his preference for the Siberian Husky. Given the fact that we are talking about 1960, it is perhaps not too difficult to understand the leaning toward the Siberian Husky as a preferred breed. This was the time when many of the top names in sled dog racing were using the Siberian Husky exclusively. Dr. Roland Lombard and Dr. Charles Belford for example, both top dog mushers of this era were breeding, training and winning with Siberian Huskies. The top breeding kennels for the Siberian Husky were Canadian kennels. In a paper entitled “Siberian Huskies in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police”, written in March 1962, Superintendent Fraser extols the virtues of this sled dog breed. He quotes from the Canadian Kennel Club breed standard when he describes the Siberian Husky as:

“alert, intelligent, most tractable and easily trained...a graceful animal of medium size, quick on his feet and superb in action. He has a strongly build body with a deep chest, well-muscled shoulders and straight long legs”.

Superintendent Fraser goes on to say that these animals are:

“naturally friendly, and can actually live with the people in their tents or igloos on the barrens if necessary...men travelling alone in the wild inaccessible areas in the North are starved of human companionship and as a result they not only develop a respect for their dogs but become very attached to them”.

For Superintendent Fraser the Siberian Husky presented as a very positive alternative to the “vicious in-bred killers” that the Siberian Husky was to replace. To further indicate his preference for the breed, Superintendent Fraser personally purchased a purebred Siberian Husky, sent him to the R.C.M.P. breeding station at Fort Norman and gave him the very Canadian, but somewhat undignified name of “Moose”.

Given the above-mentioned facts as far as the state of R.C.M.P. sled dogs was concerned, and given Superintendent Fraser’s inclinations, it is perhaps not too surprising to read in the above-mentioned memo of 15 November 1960:

“6. Early in June of this year a member of this Division whilst on leave in Alberta learned that one of Walt Disney’s Enterprises known as Cangary Films Ltd., were in possession of several purebred Siberian Husky dogs whose services were no longer required in the making of a film depicting life in the North and the constant use of sleigh dogs. This member contacted those in authority there and learned that these dogs would no longer be required and if the proper representations were made to the higher authorities of the organization, it was possible that these dogs would be turned over to us.

7. This matter was pursued and as a consequence, we recently received from Cangary Films and shipped to ‘Fort Norman, two pure-bred male Siberian Huskies, six female Malamute and Siberian Husky dogs, there being very little and practically undefinable differences between the Malamute and Siberian Husky, and one female with a litter of 8 one month old pups. This was indeed a fortunate circumstance for us and placed us in a position where we will have the get of nine separate sires to draw from because two of the females delivered to us have en bred to outside sires, that is not the sires that were given to us. This then, with the dogs already in our possession at Norman, places us in a most favourable position insofar as breeding and stocking our Detachments with better quality dogs is concerned”.

This is how the Walt Disney Siberian Huskies came to join the R.C.M.P. The only discrepancy is that there is almost a 100% chance that the dogs weren’t Siberian Huskies at all. All that can be said for certain is that they were bred to look like Bill Bacon’s Smokey. In a report dated November 25, 1965, C/Supt. Macdonnel, C/O “G” Division writes:

“Although all dogs displayed characteristics of the Siberian Husky, their ancestral background is not known”.

This means that the value of the dogs received from Walt Disney was purely an individualized thing. These were either good dogs or bad dogs, it had nothing to do with the merits of the Siberian Husky breed.

Before the dogs were received from Walt Disney, the force already had nine Siberian Huskies “on strength” at Fort Norman. This could account for the fact that several photos of R.C.M.P. teams that pre-date 1960 show dogs with obvious Siberian Husky characteristics. In addition to Moose (m) mentioned above, these nine Siberian Huskies consisted of Shango (m)-(a dog registered as Shady Lane’s Chinook and donated by a woman in Toronto), and seven dogs of undetermined origin named Silver (f), Pepper (m), Rex (m), Tess (f), Homer (m), Belle (f), and Jenny (f). Dogs were “taken on strength” by the force when they reached the age of six months, and at that time they were given an official identification number beginning with the letter “G”. Careful records were maintained on these dogs following the introduction of the breeding program in Fort Norman and after the spring of 1962 at Herschel island, when the breeding station was moved to that location. The breeding of these dogs continued at Herschel Island until 1965, when the program was terminated.

In all, 19 dogs were received from Walt Disney. In November 1960 the following dogs were received at the Fort Norman breeding station:

G3792 Roxy (f) 5 years old
G3793 Rita (f) 9 months old
G3794 Rossi (f) 9 months old
G3795 Reni (f) 9 months old
G3796 Rilla (f) 7 months old
G3797 Rejane (f) 7 months old
G3798 King (m) 2 years old
G3799 Kenny (m) 2 years old

The following dogs were received at the same time but were held at Fort Smith, N.W.T.

G4424 Lady (f) believed by the force to be Nikki, star of the movie
G4426 Gypsy (f) all the following are pups of Lady
G4427 Trixie (f)
G4425 Cindy (f)
G4428 Jack (m)

Three dogs were sent directly to the Eskimo Point Detachment in June 1961:

G4035 Jack (m)
G4036 Butch (m)
G4037 Queenie(f)

Finally, in March 1962, the Calgary Zoo donated two Disney dogs which were sent to Fort Norman. These dogs were:

G3867 King (m)
G3868 Cheetah (m)

What happened to these dogs and their offspring?

G3792 Roxy had four litters, being bred to G3867 King twice, G3179 Rex once, and a dog named Gus (see below). Roxy’s pups went to Fort Liard, Baker Lake, and Fort McPherson. G3792 Rita also had four litters. The puppies of the first two litters (sired by G3156 Shango and G3179 Rex) all died. Pups from the other two litters (sired by dogs named Gruben and Grube) ended up in Cambridge Bay, Aklavik, Coppermine, Fort McPherson and Herschel island. G3794 Rossie (Rosie) had three litters. Pups sired by G3179 Rex all died and litters sired by Grube and G4416 Moose ended up in Herschel Island, Old Crow, and the Central Arctic Subdivision. The dogs that went to Old Crow were sired by Grube, and were probably better known than others due to their exposure at the Whitehorse Sourdough Rendezvous. Three of these dogs were G1515 Bimbo, G1525 Buster and G1535 Butch.

G3795 Reni had four litters. Pups from a litter sired by G3867 King ended up at Fort Liard and Fort Norman. Pups sired by Grube went to Herschel island, Old Crow and Sachs Harbour. The three pups that went to Old Crow were G1485 Gump, G1495 Gimpy and G1505 Gook. This first dog Gump was the leader used by Peter Benjamin on the running of the Last Patrol, and he is featured in many photos of the Whitehorse Sourdough Rendezvous, leading the R.C.M.P. team in the mid 1960’s (7). Pups sired by an “unknown Indian dog” were given away.

G3796 Rilla had no pups that lived. G3797 Rejane had one pup G3861 Gus, sired by G4416 Moose, (good old Moose!). G44245 Lady had five litters. Puppies from a breeding to G4416 Moose ended up in Fort Good Hope and Fort Liard. Puppies from a breeding to G3179 Rex went to Herschel Island. Puppies from a breeding to G3861 Gus ended up in the Central Arctic, while Lady herself was sent to Spence Bay. G4426 Gypsy had two litters sired by a male named Pepper and by G4416 Moose. Moose’s pups went to Fort Good Hope. G4427 Trixie had one litter sired by G4416 Moose and these pups went to Fort Good Hope. The three dogs that were sent to Eskimo Point seem to have died or were destroyed there. G3798 King and G3799 Kenny were destroyed. Nick was sent to Fort Liard and Cindy and Jack died at Fort Smith. It is not known exactly what happened to the two males donated by Disney via the Calgary Zoo. It is known that all of the dogs donated by Disney were dead by 1965, having died from natural causes or been destroyed for humane reasons. Their offspring, however, were spread throughout the various detachments still using dogs.

During 1956 there were 264 sled dogs “on strength” throughout the north. In that year 53,443 miles of patrol were carried out by dog team, and 2, 487 miles by snowmobile. There followed a gradual increase in the use of snowmobiles, particularly after 1965, but dogs held their own up until 1967 when 41,733 miles were patrolled by snowmobile and 21,932 by dog team. In 1967 only 13 of the 41 permanent detachments in “G” Division still had sled dogs. In 1968 10 detachments still had sled dogs as follows:

Old Crow 20 dogs Baker Lake 1 dog
Arctic Red River 20 dogs Grise Fjord 23 dogs
Fort Good Hope 16 dogs Spence Bay 18 dogs
Sachs harbour 26 dogs Pond Inlet 17 dogs
Fort Liard 13 dogs Eskimo Point 5 dogs

By 1969, the year of the Last Patrol, only 4 detachments had sled dogs, with 24 in Old Crow, 14 in Arctic Red River,. 17 in Sachs Harbour and 23 in Spence Bay. These detachments were ordered to dispose of these dogs at this time, many of these dogs were pups and grandpups of the Disney dogs. This year, just nine years after the inception of Superintendent Fraser’s ambitious breeding program, the use of sled dogs by the R.C.M.P. was to be no more. The dogs were sot on orders in most of the detachments, a difficult job for their masters. Some were given away, and throughout the north the breeding was still occasionally evident.

Now, over 40 years after the introduction of the Disney dogs into the R.C.M.P. dog teams, and with the benefit of hindsight, the whole project can be examined critically. It would seem that in large part the breeding program and the Disney experiment was at best marginally successful. The Disney dogs did not have the physical or mental stamina to perform in the harsh conditions of the High and Eastern Arctic. There, where dogs are driven with whips, the Disney dogs proved to be no match for the Eskimo Dogs, and were quickly written off. It has been claimed that their presence, and consequent breeding with the purebred Canadian Eskimo Dogs, contributed to the latter’s near brush with extinction.

Their performance in the Western Arctic was acceptable, particularly in the bush, but they did not prove to be better dogs than the Mackenzie River Huskies that had been ther all along. It is true that the temperament of the Disney dogs, even though they were not purebred Siberian Huskies was an improvement over the aggressive, often mean temperament of the dogs that traditionally were used in the arctic. Possibly a better assessment of the program would have been possible had not technology so rapidly overtaken it, with the help of the snowmobile.

Possibly it is only right that these dogs, which initially gained recognition amidst the romance of Hollywood cameras, were destined for the romance that seems to go hand-in-hand with scarlet coated mounties, frozen tundra, mad trappers and Sergeant Preston. Probably no sled dogs are more readily identified, even by those who are only casually interested. These dogs have captured our imaginations, and played with our fantasies. It must have been the influence of Hollywood that made it possible for this story to have taken place when it did. In any event, these dogs are now an entrenched part of the history of Canada’s north.

Note: Research for this article was conducted at the RCMP Archives in Ottawa Ontario and at the offices of the Whitehorse Star in Whitehorse Yukon
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(1) The equipment from the RCMP Last Patrol including the toboggans, harness, even the cooking gear is part of an impressive display in the RCMP Centennial Museum located at the RCMP Training Academy in Regina Saskatchewan. Also included in this display are two stuffed sled dogs that could be part of the actual Last Patrol team but are most certainly “Disney dogs”. This museum display is just around the corner from the display of the guns, snowshoes and tea pail owned by Albert Johnson, the famous Mad Trapper of Rat River. For 48 days during the winter of 1931-32, Johnson defied a combined force of white trappers, aboriginal hunters and men of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. They were engaged in a running battle which ranged for 150 miles along the Arctic Circle. Sled dogs played a big part in this trackdown....but it was still too early for the Disney Dogs.

(2) In early 2005, the head of the Makavik Corporation in Nunavik requested that the Federal Government appoint an independent judge or mount a public enquiry into allegations that the R.C.M.P. systematically killed large numbers of sled dogs in the eastern arctic (Nunavut) and northern Quebec (Nunavik) in an alleged attempt to “make the Inuit more reliant on the Federal government”. It should be noted that the dogs described in this article were never sent to the communities mentioned by the Makavik Corporation and any effort to involve them in the ongoing debate regarding the alleged dog cull would be inappropriate

(3) This is the same Joe Redington who went on to become the Father of the Iditarod.. There is a very interesting account of Bacon’s dealings for Polar in the book Father of the Iditarod, the Joe Redington Story, by Lew Freedman, Epicenter Press, Box 82368, Kenmore, WA, 98028, U.S.A. Go to page 71 for the story of Polar.

(4) The Norrises are well known for their Anadyr Siberian Huskies. It is perhaps not as well known that throughout most of the existence of their famous “Alaskan of Anadyr” kennels, Natalie Norris has also maintained a small breeding program of purebred Alaskan Malemutes. At one stage, Natalie also bred purebred Eskimo Dogs with breeding stock from both Greenland and Igloolik in the Canadian Arctic

(5) Have any readers ever seen this movie? Any comments would be appreciated, please reply using the contact email address on this site.

(6) It was also the case that the force would hire not just the Special Constable, but also his dog team. There are also several examples of cases where “civilian” dog teams were used for a specific purpose.

(7) In the late 1960’s the R.C.M.P team started to make the trip every February (by DC3 airplane) from Old Crow to Whitehorse to compete in the annual Sourdough Rendezvous sled dog race. There were several mushers over the years. In 1964, Steven Frost won all three heats and took first place with this team. In 1965 the musher was Royce Bates but there were other Old Crow teams in the race. In 1966 the musher was Cpl. Strain, in 1968 Peter Benjamin mushed the R.C.M.P team. 1969 was the year of the Last Patrol and it also was the last year that the R.C.M.P. dogs competed as a “mountie” team (Peter Benjamin was the musher). 1969 marked the end of the sled dog era as far as the R.C.M.P. was concerned. Following the Last Patrol, the Old Crow dogs were given to Peter Benjamin’s sister Martha Benjamin. Martha’s husband was perennial mushing champion Stephen Frost. Martha ran the dogs in the 1970 Yukon Sourdough Rendezvous race, the first woman to compete in five years, finishing in 7th place. Martha competed in 1971 and 1972. In 1974 Stephen Frost raced these dogs to an impressive finish but it was at this time that Yukon mushers were acquiring the faster Alaskan huskies and the “Disney Dogs”, as impressive as they had been for so many years, were not able to keep up with the winners. Stephen Frost repeated with an impressive performance in 1975 and following the Whitehorse race Stephen went to compete in Fort Nelson. It was following this race that the dogs were all sold to Art Fraser of Fort Nelson. When Whitehorse musher Bill Hodgson shattered the Rendezvous track record in 1976, it was a great grandpup of the Disney dogs, Frosty, that was leading his team.